Thread 2, Patriocentricity (Karen)

I will be posting notes taken from Geoff Botkins’ presentations at various conferences during the spring and summer of 2008.  I look forward to your thoughts and insights.

 

Thread 1, Patriocentricity (Joy)

Since the old one was timing out on my high speed…

9,OOO+ comments later, and we have moved from specific works by patriocentric authors (So Much More, Return of the Daughters, Passionate Housewives: Desperate for God, The Prairie Muffin Manifesto) to the larger “global” picture of patriocentricty. Prairie Muffin, Thread 8 discussed single women, the Botkins at a recent convention, home schooling, modesty, Samaritan Ministries (a medical needs sharing organization), and much more.

Please see the index post here, for a detailed road map to our conversations.

*noting here that this is a continuation of Prairie Muffin #8 in case somebody is lost! (Karen)

 

Prayer Requests, Week of July 7- July 13

One of the suggestions was to bump the prayer requests up, so that we could easily see them and pray about them without sorting through the thread, so I’ll try to keep these updated!

Prayer “thoughts” through out: for the readers and visitors that come to the blog, and for the young girls affected by patriocentric teachings in an unhealthy way. (Particularly Beatrice: for healing regarding self-injury and “Lady Helen”.) Also for NGJ readers coming here from TG’s blog.

Kathy (#56, T8PM): Conversations with family regarding patriocentricty.

MrsW (#301, T8PM): Prayers for her health and soon-to-arrive baby!

Andrea (#390, T8PM): Prayers for her sister, Claire, who fell ill. UPDATE, #394, #613: Ovarian cyst rupture, pray for healing and a quick recovery.

Cindy (#396, T8PM): Prayers for her friend Kay, undergoing spiritual attacks

Joy (#562, T8PM): For God’s provision in an undisclosed matter

Cynthia (#565, T8PM): For her friend Cassie and Tosha, near drowning accident

Mary (# 734, T8PM): Taking comprehensive exams for MS Degree in Information Sciences.

Lindsey (#86, PT1): Car trouble, for a quick cheap repair or a new car altogether!

Sandy (#2, Prayer): Family crisis~ for peace, healing, and  strength.

 

Index: Visionary Daughters Thread 3 up. (Joy)

One of the frequent accusations hurled against True Womanhood goes something like this: “what in the world could be so important that you have talked about it for thousands of comments and multiple threads? Don’t you all have something better to do with your time?” or conversely: “this blog is nothing but a bunch of angry, bitter women gossiping about some sweet ladies.”

The answer to the first question is, quite simply, we are talking in such depth about the thorny problem of patriocentricity (a term first coined here by thatmom, Karen Campbell). It has been hotly debated here as to whether or not patriocentricity is heretical. I leave that for the readers to decide.  The indexes are a best effort to provide a road map to this extensive discussion, along with an (as accurate as possible) MLA cited extant article list of all the articles, blogs, books, videos, and sound recordings that were discussed in each thread. That listing is an education in and of itself, seperate from the actual discussion.

The answer to the second question depends on your viewpoint. I would argue strongly that holding teachers accountable for their words, theology, and teaching is not gossip. Many of the things discussed are works of literature and film, and as such, they will be open to literary and/or scholarly criticism long before their theology is even considered.

This is a work of love for me. I have come to know, admire, and love many of the frequent commenters and contributors here on TW. The women here, first and foremost, desire to seek hard after God, and Truth (Phillippians 3:8). I have them to thank for driving me deep into the marrow of God’s holy and inspired word. I said in thread 2:

Speaking of which, I have you ladies to thank for getting me deeper in the Word than I have ever been before…and as my husband was teasing me…it’s addictive .I keep finding something else that is fascinating me that I find myself quite sad when I have to leave my devotional time. I never thought that would happen! Now I get what a Sunday School teacher used to say: ” It’s like a love letter…and don’t you want to sit there and read your lover’s letter over and over again…” For someone who has spent such a long time in the “Christian” community but with really shallow roots, this has been an amazing time for me. So thank you, dear ones, for sharpening my faith and inspiring me to go deeper with God.

I hope that each visitor to True Womanhood, if nothing else, walks away seeking God, and what HE says, through His Word, and not what any man or woman says God has said.

The index is explained in more depth within the PDF files- the arrangement is not alphabetical, and it is not comprehensively cross indexed. It is meant to be a road map and is arranged in order of the topics as they occured within the discussion. The errors within the index are all mine. I would appreciate emails with corrections (to spelling or numbers) not topics. I realize I am writing with a bias, as I have participated in the discussions since the beginning; some of my topic groupings foreshadow later discussions. I find it interesting that many of the blog posts from patriarchal sources that have caused controversies have since been removed. Those that have preserved screen shots- please email us at milleniumwoman@gmail.com. Please check back to this thread as more indexes will be added as they become available.

It is True Womanhood’s express position that all view points are welcome. As the purpose of the blog is to discuss what a thinking Christian woman looks like in the 21st Century, we realize that the discussion will only profit if many women from many walks of life can discuss the topics at hand in a place that will not be censored. We have however, blocked posts when they are not related to the topic at hand; when they have devolved into personal attacks; or when malice is clearly sought by the commenter. We have not deleted posts by commenters who have disagreed with the main view point held by the majority. You can read through the many threads where there has been honest, respectful discussion on differing viewpoints. We at True Womanhood endeavor to operate in an atmosphere of grace, understanding, and mercy. Sometimes we get angry, sometimes we are misunderstood, but we never, ever intentionally wish malice or harm to any man or woman that may come our way in the blogosphere. We politely agree to disagree sometimes- and that is possible. As “iron sharpens iron” we seek to be Bereans, and search out the teachings of earthly fallible teachers against the plumb line of the whole and infallible Word of God.

There are many of the faith present here on True Womanhood, from diverse backgrounds such as Roman Catholic, Reformed, Protestant, Orthodox, Anglican - the list goes on and on, and changes by the day. It is to this end that we request commenters to be mindful and respectful of the diversity at hand, and seek not to tear down our brothers and sisters.

visionary-daughters-thread-1

Thread 1 is where the patriocentric discussion begins. It is hard to quantify: looking at the index is barely scratching the surface. While it was started to discuss So Much More, the book by Anna Sofia and Elizabeth Botkin, it also discusses the entire theological viewpoint of the patriocentric groups, and the implications thereof.

visonary-daughters-thread-2

Thread two is clearly a continuation of Visionary Daughters, Thread 1, but its name is
somewhat of a misnomer. The two most discussed works are actually Return of the
Daughters and Passionate Housewives, Desperate for God. Both were released in late
2007, after the first visionary daughters thread had run its course. Return of the
Daughters is a documentary film that fleshes out the ideas presented in So Much More by
Anna Sofia and Elizabeth Botkin. Passionate Housewives is a book, written by Jennie
Chancey and Stacy McDonald. The main topic of discussion actually revolves around
(directly or indirectly) the idea of women studying theology and the Scriptures, and
whether that is acceptable or not.

visionary-daughters-thread-3

Thread three begins where thread two ends: the subject (and definition of) gossip and slander, Matt 18 proceedings, and how that relates to examining the teachings of a ministry. It is in thread three that the discussion begins to expand to a more “global” discussion of Patriocentricity versus a specific discussion of books and films produced by Vision Forum Ministries.  The reality occurring at the time of the thread’s publication: True Womanhood had caught the attention of Patriocentric groups and supporters, and they were trying their best to scare the women commenting on TW and shut down conversations regarding Patriocentricity. Needless to say, it didn’t work. However, the large balance of this thread is dealing with accusations of gossip, misconstrued words, and the need for honest and straightforward discussion.  The other major subject: “millstone manufacturing” and “spin”.

 

official welcome to Joy, our new TW contributor!!!

Joy is wife to James, momma to four under the age of five, erstwhile graphic designer, and occasional bookworm. She graduated from East Tennessee State University in 2006 with a BA in English and History. In her sliver of spare time, you’ll find her deep into her favorite books, or scrapping. A military brat, Joy has lived all over the United States. She currently calls the Appalachian Mountains home. A piece of her heart is left in Pakistan, where she spent a brief time doing mission work. She has recently added a new job description: second generation homeschooling mama, as she was home schooled herself and is now starting kindergarten and first grade with her two oldest boys. You can find her musings and confessions along the journey at Life in the Making.

Joy’s first contribution to this blog will amaze everyone! She has put together the most amazing index of all our commentary on patriocentricity and soon it will be available for all of us to use and for those who wander in here and don’t know where to begin researching this topic. Three cheers for Joy!!!

 

8th part of prairie muffins and patriocentric discussion

Here is a new thread…the last one was getting too hard to load!

 

7th part of prairie muffin and other topics regarding patriocentricity discussion (Karen)

For context, please read the first 6 parts of this thread.

Also, look for an index of related topics on this site coming soon!

 

6th part of prairie muffin and other patriocentric discussion (Karen)

Our last thread was getting too slow to download so we are continuing here. Since someone mentioned that the Ladies Against Feminism site, a patriocentric website, recommends Helen Andelin’s book Fascinating Womanhood,and given her wide influence with conservative Christian women, we will be looking at some of her teachings as well.

 

“Love means never having to say ‘I’m sorry.’” (Camille)

We all know that proverb is more than a little “off.” I say “I’m sorry” more often now than ever in my life, I think. And I have my 4.5-year-old to remind me when an apology is needed. “Mommy, you yelled at Sugar, my dog. You need to say ‘I’m sorry.’”

I really don’t understand the reluctance to apologize. In Christ, it really seems to me that apologies are a win-win situation, reminding all of us that we fail but in Christ we are made whole. Maybe we women–the more social and more relationship-focused creatures–have an easier time apologizing than our counterparts.

Evidence has come to light in the last few weeks convincing me that my alma mater and my former employee, Bob Jones University, needs to clarify, apologize, and reconcile their past racist policies. As a believer, I’m surprised at the resistance. As a historian and rhetorical critic of the organization, I’m not that surprised at all.

Nonetheless, check out the new site and pass it along to any BJU grads or former students you may know at Please Reconcile. For the sake of the Gospel and the Body as a whole, reconciliation is necessary, I believe.

 

5th part of prairie muffin manifesto

Original document can be found here. Be sure to read parts 1 through 4, too.